Discussion:
Minimalist boat docks
(too old to reply)
g***@aol.com
2013-09-08 15:38:41 UTC
Permalink
We always hear about how expensive boat docks and lifts are but these
old rednecks up the river show you don't need all of that complexity.

These are at least 20 years old

Why not PVC pilings? (full of concrete)

Loading Image...

Simple lifts, Single lift plate, 4 posts and some pulleys.

Loading Image...

Got lift rings on your boat? It gets simpler

Loading Image...

Note the home made weights (RoHS compliant)
iBoaterer
2013-09-08 16:12:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by g***@aol.com
We always hear about how expensive boat docks and lifts are but these
old rednecks up the river show you don't need all of that complexity.
These are at least 20 years old
Why not PVC pilings? (full of concrete)
http://gfretwell.com/ftp/Minimalist%20dock.jpg
Simple lifts, Single lift plate, 4 posts and some pulleys.
http://gfretwell.com/ftp/Minimalist%20cradle%20lift.jpg
Got lift rings on your boat? It gets simpler
http://gfretwell.com/ftp/Minimalist%20ring%20lift.jpg
Note the home made weights (RoHS compliant)
PVC pilings work fine in Florida, friend did one. The great thing is
that you can just "jet" them in with a water hose connected to a 1" PVC
pipe! And you get jet horizontally, too, for electrical lines, etc.
Wayne.B
2013-09-08 17:08:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by iBoaterer
PVC pilings work fine in Florida, friend did one. The great thing is
that you can just "jet" them in with a water hose connected to a 1" PVC
pipe! And you get jet horizontally, too, for electrical lines, etc.
===

They're OK for light weight boats and structures in moderate wind
conditions. For larger boats in hurricane conditions you really need
deep driven pilings of a suitable size.
iBoaterer
2013-09-08 17:50:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Wayne.B
Post by iBoaterer
PVC pilings work fine in Florida, friend did one. The great thing is
that you can just "jet" them in with a water hose connected to a 1" PVC
pipe! And you get jet horizontally, too, for electrical lines, etc.
===
They're OK for light weight boats and structures in moderate wind
conditions. For larger boats in hurricane conditions you really need
deep driven pilings of a suitable size.
You can drive them as deep as you want, really. Once filled with fiber
reinforced concrete, you have an 8" diameter concrete pile! A lot of BIG
docks that sit on 8" concrete piles, as well as bridges, etc. As far as
how deep, it is the skin friction that keeps them in place whether
uplift or downforce, it's not the end bearing in sand.
Earl
2013-09-12 23:46:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by iBoaterer
Post by Wayne.B
Post by iBoaterer
PVC pilings work fine in Florida, friend did one. The great thing is
that you can just "jet" them in with a water hose connected to a 1" PVC
pipe! And you get jet horizontally, too, for electrical lines, etc.
===
They're OK for light weight boats and structures in moderate wind
conditions. For larger boats in hurricane conditions you really need
deep driven pilings of a suitable size.
You can drive them as deep as you want, really. Once filled with fiber
reinforced concrete, you have an 8" diameter concrete pile! A lot of BIG
docks that sit on 8" concrete piles, as well as bridges, etc. As far as
how deep, it is the skin friction that keeps them in place whether
uplift or downforce, it's not the end bearing in sand.
How many bridges sit on 8" concrete pilings without rebar? Boaters
traveling under them may want to know, Kevin.

g***@aol.com
2013-09-09 04:08:57 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 08 Sep 2013 13:08:35 -0400, Wayne.B
Post by Wayne.B
They're OK for light weight boats and structures in moderate wind
conditions. For larger boats in hurricane conditions you really need
deep driven pilings of a suitable size.
A lot depends on the size of the PVC and whether you put rebar in it
when you pour it solid with concrete.

This is my mooring post for storms and it is pretty tough
8# PVC with 4" saddle rings and a 4 bar #5 cage, poured solid.

It is 6 feet into the bottom and I pumped the inside out before I put
the concrete in so I didn't need a tremie.

Loading Image...

This is the way we patched up some bad pilings on the community basin.

Loading Image...

Those are 12" on the pilings and the midpoint one under the finger
pier is 8"

Sleeving bad pilings and pouring them solid is pretty popular here. So
far they seem to be holding up well.

The trick is finding the pipe. Usually if you ask at the right time,
it is free for the taking.
You want to find the road crew the day or day after they do the
backfill. Then they are done with pipe and anything laying around is
trash. Whole sticks may be too hard to handle tho particularly 12":
That 8" I used for my mooring pole has cut off bell ends so it would
be easier to deal with and better to tie lines to.
I shot down the original 10' stick, pumped it out dropped the cage in
and started filling it adding the short pieces as I went so I didn't
need to pour in all 10 bags or so from 6 feet in the air.
Wayne.B
2013-09-10 05:50:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by g***@aol.com
This is my mooring post for storms and it is pretty tough
8# PVC with 4" saddle rings and a 4 bar #5 cage, poured solid.
It is 6 feet into the bottom and I pumped the inside out before I put
the concrete in so I didn't need a tremie.
http://gfretwell.com/ftp/pole.jpg
===

What you've really got there is a reinforced concrete piling poured
inside a PVC form. You could just as easily use a sonotube form if
it would hold together long enough for the concrete to set.

A lot of new marina docks are being built with pre-cast reinforced
concrete pilings. They drive them in the conventional manner and
seem pretty durable.
iBoaterer
2013-09-10 11:55:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Wayne.B
Post by g***@aol.com
This is my mooring post for storms and it is pretty tough
8# PVC with 4" saddle rings and a 4 bar #5 cage, poured solid.
It is 6 feet into the bottom and I pumped the inside out before I put
the concrete in so I didn't need a tremie.
http://gfretwell.com/ftp/pole.jpg
===
What you've really got there is a reinforced concrete piling poured
inside a PVC form. You could just as easily use a sonotube form if
it would hold together long enough for the concrete to set.
You can't jet in a piece of sonotube.
Wayne.B
2013-09-10 13:38:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by iBoaterer
Post by Wayne.B
Post by g***@aol.com
This is my mooring post for storms and it is pretty tough
8# PVC with 4" saddle rings and a 4 bar #5 cage, poured solid.
It is 6 feet into the bottom and I pumped the inside out before I put
the concrete in so I didn't need a tremie.
http://gfretwell.com/ftp/pole.jpg
===
What you've really got there is a reinforced concrete piling poured
inside a PVC form. You could just as easily use a sonotube form if
it would hold together long enough for the concrete to set.
You can't jet in a piece of sonotube.
===

The gold standard for quality docks around here is "driven to
resistance".
iBoaterer
2013-09-10 14:05:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Wayne.B
Post by iBoaterer
Post by Wayne.B
Post by g***@aol.com
This is my mooring post for storms and it is pretty tough
8# PVC with 4" saddle rings and a 4 bar #5 cage, poured solid.
It is 6 feet into the bottom and I pumped the inside out before I put
the concrete in so I didn't need a tremie.
http://gfretwell.com/ftp/pole.jpg
===
What you've really got there is a reinforced concrete piling poured
inside a PVC form. You could just as easily use a sonotube form if
it would hold together long enough for the concrete to set.
You can't jet in a piece of sonotube.
===
The gold standard for quality docks around here is "driven to
resistance".
Driven piles are different that driven (or jetted) forms, then poured.
But, the resistance is skin friction, unless you happen to get to rock
first. Then, a different (end bearing) pile is used.
Wayne.B
2013-09-10 14:36:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by iBoaterer
Post by Wayne.B
Post by iBoaterer
Post by Wayne.B
Post by g***@aol.com
This is my mooring post for storms and it is pretty tough
8# PVC with 4" saddle rings and a 4 bar #5 cage, poured solid.
It is 6 feet into the bottom and I pumped the inside out before I put
the concrete in so I didn't need a tremie.
http://gfretwell.com/ftp/pole.jpg
===
What you've really got there is a reinforced concrete piling poured
inside a PVC form. You could just as easily use a sonotube form if
it would hold together long enough for the concrete to set.
You can't jet in a piece of sonotube.
===
The gold standard for quality docks around here is "driven to
resistance".
Driven piles are different that driven (or jetted) forms, then poured.
But, the resistance is skin friction, unless you happen to get to rock
first. Then, a different (end bearing) pile is used.
===

All of the first class dock builders around here use driven pilings.
They typically go in about 10 ft to the "resistance" point, certainly
not bedrock since I don't think we have any. The bargain basement
builders jet them in, typically to about 6 ft or so. It stands to
reason, simple mechanics actually, that 10 ft gives you a much larger
fulcrum, ie, a stronger dock. Our trawler is about 50 ft and 70,000
lbs with a lot of superstructure. I needed a dock that would hold it
in 100 kt winds, over 10,000 lbs of force.
iBoaterer
2013-09-10 15:50:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Wayne.B
Post by iBoaterer
Post by Wayne.B
Post by iBoaterer
Post by Wayne.B
Post by g***@aol.com
This is my mooring post for storms and it is pretty tough
8# PVC with 4" saddle rings and a 4 bar #5 cage, poured solid.
It is 6 feet into the bottom and I pumped the inside out before I put
the concrete in so I didn't need a tremie.
http://gfretwell.com/ftp/pole.jpg
===
What you've really got there is a reinforced concrete piling poured
inside a PVC form. You could just as easily use a sonotube form if
it would hold together long enough for the concrete to set.
You can't jet in a piece of sonotube.
===
The gold standard for quality docks around here is "driven to
resistance".
Driven piles are different that driven (or jetted) forms, then poured.
But, the resistance is skin friction, unless you happen to get to rock
first. Then, a different (end bearing) pile is used.
===
All of the first class dock builders around here use driven pilings.
They typically go in about 10 ft to the "resistance" point, certainly
not bedrock since I don't think we have any.
They'll be skin friction piles, and "resistance" of course is then
relative. There are areas in south Florida where you hit the limestone
base pretty quickly. But most areas there you have skin friction piles.
The thing is, these piles aren't carrying a huge load unless you are
building things like the St. Pete pier.
Post by Wayne.B
The bargain basement
builders jet them in, typically to about 6 ft or so. It stands to
reason, simple mechanics actually, that 10 ft gives you a much larger
fulcrum, ie, a stronger dock. Our trawler is about 50 ft and 70,000
lbs with a lot of superstructure. I needed a dock that would hold it
in 100 kt winds, over 10,000 lbs of force.
You can jet deeper than that. 10 kips isn't unheard of or anything
spectacular, design wise and is easily resisted. You have to remember
that the piles are mechanically acting together. So, if you have ten
piles, and fastened to each other properly, you then only have a 1 kip
lateral resistance.
Mr. Luddite
2013-09-10 19:09:44 UTC
Permalink
"Wayne.B" wrote in message news:***@4ax.com...

===

All of the first class dock builders around here use driven pilings.
They typically go in about 10 ft to the "resistance" point, certainly
not bedrock since I don't think we have any. The bargain basement
builders jet them in, typically to about 6 ft or so. It stands to
reason, simple mechanics actually, that 10 ft gives you a much larger
fulcrum, ie, a stronger dock. Our trawler is about 50 ft and 70,000
lbs with a lot of superstructure. I needed a dock that would hold it
in 100 kt winds, over 10,000 lbs of force.

---------------------------------

One thing that struck me about many of the private dockages in Florida
(on the east coast anyway) was that they were located on channels off
of the ICW and near the owner's home.

In the event of a hurricane it seems like you have two choices .... a
haul out well in advance or reliance on the dock structure to secure
and protect the boats. Maybe the surrounding houses and buildings
provide some protection from the strongest winds, I don't know.

In our area in the north, leaving your boat in a slip or dockage in a
hurricane isn't recommended. More damage occurs do to the wind and
storm surge smashing the boat against the dock. We used to submit a
"hurricane plan" every year up here defining what advance action we
desired in the event of a hurricane. In my case, my first choice
was a haul out followed by moving my boat from it's slip to an
available mooring in the harbor.

Fortunately, hurricanes up here are far and few between but I've
witnessed serious damage and even a sinking that occurred due to a
strong nor'easter. The boats and floating docks get out of sync and
hulls get smashed.
Mr. Luddite
2013-09-10 19:48:32 UTC
Permalink
"Mr. Luddite" wrote in message news:***@giganews.com...



"Wayne.B" wrote in message news:***@4ax.com...

===

All of the first class dock builders around here use driven pilings.
They typically go in about 10 ft to the "resistance" point, certainly
not bedrock since I don't think we have any. The bargain basement
builders jet them in, typically to about 6 ft or so. It stands to
reason, simple mechanics actually, that 10 ft gives you a much larger
fulcrum, ie, a stronger dock. Our trawler is about 50 ft and 70,000
lbs with a lot of superstructure. I needed a dock that would hold it
in 100 kt winds, over 10,000 lbs of force.

---------------------------------

One thing that struck me about many of the private dockages in Florida
(on the east coast anyway) was that they were located on channels off
of the ICW and near the owner's home.

In the event of a hurricane it seems like you have two choices .... a
haul out well in advance or reliance on the dock structure to secure
and protect the boats. Maybe the surrounding houses and buildings
provide some protection from the strongest winds, I don't know.

In our area in the north, leaving your boat in a slip or dockage in a
hurricane isn't recommended. More damage occurs do to the wind and
storm surge smashing the boat against the dock. We used to submit a
"hurricane plan" every year up here defining what advance action we
desired in the event of a hurricane. In my case, my first choice
was a haul out followed by moving my boat from it's slip to an
available mooring in the harbor.

Fortunately, hurricanes up here are far and few between but I've
witnessed serious damage and even a sinking that occurred due to a
strong nor'easter. The boats and floating docks get out of sync and
hulls get smashed.
----------------------------

"due to" versus "do to". Getting dumber as the years go by.
g***@aol.com
2013-09-10 20:04:05 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 10 Sep 2013 15:09:44 -0400, "Mr. Luddite" <nowayalso.jose.com>
Post by Wayne.B
===
All of the first class dock builders around here use driven pilings.
They typically go in about 10 ft to the "resistance" point, certainly
not bedrock since I don't think we have any. The bargain basement
builders jet them in, typically to about 6 ft or so. It stands to
reason, simple mechanics actually, that 10 ft gives you a much larger
fulcrum, ie, a stronger dock. Our trawler is about 50 ft and 70,000
lbs with a lot of superstructure. I needed a dock that would hold it
in 100 kt winds, over 10,000 lbs of force.
---------------------------------
One thing that struck me about many of the private dockages in Florida
(on the east coast anyway) was that they were located on channels off
of the ICW and near the owner's home.
In the event of a hurricane it seems like you have two choices .... a
haul out well in advance or reliance on the dock structure to secure
and protect the boats. Maybe the surrounding houses and buildings
provide some protection from the strongest winds, I don't know.
In our area in the north, leaving your boat in a slip or dockage in a
hurricane isn't recommended. More damage occurs do to the wind and
storm surge smashing the boat against the dock. We used to submit a
"hurricane plan" every year up here defining what advance action we
desired in the event of a hurricane. In my case, my first choice
was a haul out followed by moving my boat from it's slip to an
available mooring in the harbor.
Fortunately, hurricanes up here are far and few between but I've
witnessed serious damage and even a sinking that occurred due to a
strong nor'easter. The boats and floating docks get out of sync and
hulls get smashed.
That pole I showed is part of my hurricane plan.
I drop the boat in the water and tie it up clear of much it can hit in
a well protected basin.
g***@aol.com
2013-09-10 15:50:19 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 10 Sep 2013 09:38:44 -0400, Wayne.B
Post by Wayne.B
The gold standard for quality docks around here is "driven to
resistance".
Sounds like BS to me. You might hit shell rock at 3' or you might keep
driving for 40' or more never hitting anything but sand.

When they drilled my well I didn't see anything but white beach sand
coming up for 50' or so.
iBoaterer
2013-09-10 17:13:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by g***@aol.com
On Tue, 10 Sep 2013 09:38:44 -0400, Wayne.B
Post by Wayne.B
The gold standard for quality docks around here is "driven to
resistance".
Sounds like BS to me. You might hit shell rock at 3' or you might keep
driving for 40' or more never hitting anything but sand.
When they drilled my well I didn't see anything but white beach sand
coming up for 50' or so.
Resistance is a relative term in this case. How much it moves per X
pound blow. Skin friction from just the sand will be sufficient in short
order to get that blow count. And in actuality, unless you are putting
heavy buildings or such on them, it isn't the axial resistance you're
worried about anyway, it's the lateral forces.
g***@aol.com
2013-09-10 18:24:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by iBoaterer
Post by g***@aol.com
Post by Wayne.B
The gold standard for quality docks around here is "driven to
resistance".
Sounds like BS to me. You might hit shell rock at 3' or you might keep
driving for 40' or more never hitting anything but sand.
When they drilled my well I didn't see anything but white beach sand
coming up for 50' or so.
Resistance is a relative term in this case. How much it moves per X
pound blow. Skin friction from just the sand will be sufficient in short
order to get that blow count. And in actuality, unless you are putting
heavy buildings or such on them, it isn't the axial resistance you're
worried about anyway, it's the lateral forces.
The only resistance I see is the resistance to pay for longer pilings.
We have had quite a few docks built here by the 3 main contractors in
this area. They all use a similar rig (1500-2000# drive cap) and the
piles are still moving quite a bit per blow when they say that's
enough. It is when the top is close to the design height. (using a
string line)
iBoaterer
2013-09-10 18:45:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by g***@aol.com
Post by iBoaterer
Post by g***@aol.com
Post by Wayne.B
The gold standard for quality docks around here is "driven to
resistance".
Sounds like BS to me. You might hit shell rock at 3' or you might keep
driving for 40' or more never hitting anything but sand.
When they drilled my well I didn't see anything but white beach sand
coming up for 50' or so.
Resistance is a relative term in this case. How much it moves per X
pound blow. Skin friction from just the sand will be sufficient in short
order to get that blow count. And in actuality, unless you are putting
heavy buildings or such on them, it isn't the axial resistance you're
worried about anyway, it's the lateral forces.
The only resistance I see is the resistance to pay for longer pilings.
We have had quite a few docks built here by the 3 main contractors in
this area. They all use a similar rig (1500-2000# drive cap) and the
piles are still moving quite a bit per blow when they say that's
enough. It is when the top is close to the design height. (using a
string line)
Again, as I've stated, if it's lateral load then that is what it is. If
it has to resist a given axial load, it just has to, or it will continue
to move until it has enough skin friction to stop it. Let's say for the
sake of this conversation that you have a static axial load of of X
applied to a single pile. If the co-efficient of friction from the soil
is less than that, say .6(X) then you are in trouble. Not much of an
axial load to resist? No problem! 1/3 below the soil usually works just
great.
g***@aol.com
2013-09-10 15:45:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by iBoaterer
Post by Wayne.B
What you've really got there is a reinforced concrete piling poured
inside a PVC form. You could just as easily use a sonotube form if
it would hold together long enough for the concrete to set.
You can't jet in a piece of sonotube.
Why not?
iBoaterer
2013-09-10 17:10:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by g***@aol.com
Post by iBoaterer
Post by Wayne.B
What you've really got there is a reinforced concrete piling poured
inside a PVC form. You could just as easily use a sonotube form if
it would hold together long enough for the concrete to set.
You can't jet in a piece of sonotube.
Why not?
It won't stand being we that long. Inside and outside are coated, ends
are not.
g***@aol.com
2013-09-10 18:20:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by iBoaterer
Post by g***@aol.com
Post by iBoaterer
Post by Wayne.B
What you've really got there is a reinforced concrete piling poured
inside a PVC form. You could just as easily use a sonotube form if
it would hold together long enough for the concrete to set.
You can't jet in a piece of sonotube.
Why not?
It won't stand being we that long. Inside and outside are coated, ends
are not.
How long are you planning on leaving them there before you place the
concrete? The bottom will be in the sand and the top in the air, the
sides are all that is exposed anyway.

I see sonotubes in the water quite often. If anything they last too
long, particularly when the installer puts the wrong end up and you
can't unwrap them.
iBoaterer
2013-09-10 18:33:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by g***@aol.com
Post by iBoaterer
Post by g***@aol.com
Post by iBoaterer
Post by Wayne.B
What you've really got there is a reinforced concrete piling poured
inside a PVC form. You could just as easily use a sonotube form if
it would hold together long enough for the concrete to set.
You can't jet in a piece of sonotube.
Why not?
It won't stand being we that long. Inside and outside are coated, ends
are not.
How long are you planning on leaving them there before you place the
concrete? The bottom will be in the sand and the top in the air, the
sides are all that is exposed anyway.
Sorry, no. Been there done that. It will fold at the bottom every time.
Post by g***@aol.com
I see sonotubes in the water quite often. If anything they last too
long, particularly when the installer puts the wrong end up and you
can't unwrap them.
Again, sides are fine.
g***@aol.com
2013-09-10 19:54:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by iBoaterer
Post by g***@aol.com
Post by iBoaterer
Post by g***@aol.com
Post by iBoaterer
You can't jet in a piece of sonotube.
Why not?
It won't stand being we that long. Inside and outside are coated, ends
are not.
How long are you planning on leaving them there before you place the
concrete? The bottom will be in the sand and the top in the air, the
sides are all that is exposed anyway.
Sorry, no. Been there done that. It will fold at the bottom every time.
I have seen sonotubes sitting in a puddle for several days with no
problems (column forms sitting in a hole around a foundation pads)
Even if the bottom end went bad, it is inside the hole you jetted it
down in.

If you shoot one down and put the concrete in that day, nothing will
happen at all.
iBoaterer
2013-09-11 12:46:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by g***@aol.com
Post by iBoaterer
Post by g***@aol.com
Post by iBoaterer
Post by g***@aol.com
Post by iBoaterer
You can't jet in a piece of sonotube.
Why not?
It won't stand being we that long. Inside and outside are coated, ends
are not.
How long are you planning on leaving them there before you place the
concrete? The bottom will be in the sand and the top in the air, the
sides are all that is exposed anyway.
Sorry, no. Been there done that. It will fold at the bottom every time.
I have seen sonotubes sitting in a puddle for several days with no
problems (column forms sitting in a hole around a foundation pads)
Even if the bottom end went bad, it is inside the hole you jetted it
down in.
If you shoot one down and put the concrete in that day, nothing will
happen at all.
Um, okay, you go with that.
iBoaterer
2013-09-11 12:49:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by g***@aol.com
Post by iBoaterer
Post by g***@aol.com
Post by iBoaterer
Post by g***@aol.com
Post by iBoaterer
You can't jet in a piece of sonotube.
Why not?
It won't stand being we that long. Inside and outside are coated, ends
are not.
How long are you planning on leaving them there before you place the
concrete? The bottom will be in the sand and the top in the air, the
sides are all that is exposed anyway.
Sorry, no. Been there done that. It will fold at the bottom every time.
I have seen sonotubes sitting in a puddle for several days with no
problems (column forms sitting in a hole around a foundation pads)
Even if the bottom end went bad, it is inside the hole you jetted it
down in.
If you shoot one down and put the concrete in that day, nothing will
happen at all.
http://tinyurl.com/nh3w5au
g***@aol.com
2013-09-11 15:35:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by iBoaterer
Post by g***@aol.com
Post by iBoaterer
Post by g***@aol.com
Post by iBoaterer
Post by g***@aol.com
Post by iBoaterer
You can't jet in a piece of sonotube.
Why not?
It won't stand being we that long. Inside and outside are coated, ends
are not.
How long are you planning on leaving them there before you place the
concrete? The bottom will be in the sand and the top in the air, the
sides are all that is exposed anyway.
Sorry, no. Been there done that. It will fold at the bottom every time.
I have seen sonotubes sitting in a puddle for several days with no
problems (column forms sitting in a hole around a foundation pads)
Even if the bottom end went bad, it is inside the hole you jetted it
down in.
If you shoot one down and put the concrete in that day, nothing will
happen at all.
http://tinyurl.com/nh3w5au
If you are that worried about it, seal the ends with polyurethane
spray.
I just know I have seen them in a foundation hole with the bottom in
6" of water. They just backfilled around them a little and pumped in
the concrete.
So what if the bottom blows out a little, It just gives you a bigger
foot on the bottom.
A tube jetted down 6 feet in the sand is not going anywhere. As you
already said, the sides are sealed.

When you jet a pipe or tube, you are only pumping down the center
anyway. Don't pump the outside at all.
Then you end up with a hollow tube with nothing but dirty water in it.
Pump that water out and you have an empty tube.

Any time you are jetting any kind of piling, it is best to let them
stabilize for 6 months or more before you build on them.
That is why a commercial guy won't be doing that very often.
iBoaterer
2013-09-11 16:19:00 UTC
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Post by iBoaterer
You can't jet in a piece of sonotube.
Why not?
It won't stand being we that long. Inside and outside are coated, ends
are not.
How long are you planning on leaving them there before you place the
concrete? The bottom will be in the sand and the top in the air, the
sides are all that is exposed anyway.
Sorry, no. Been there done that. It will fold at the bottom every time.
I have seen sonotubes sitting in a puddle for several days with no
problems (column forms sitting in a hole around a foundation pads)
Even if the bottom end went bad, it is inside the hole you jetted it
down in.
If you shoot one down and put the concrete in that day, nothing will
happen at all.
http://tinyurl.com/nh3w5au
If you are that worried about it, seal the ends with polyurethane
spray.
I just know I have seen them in a foundation hole with the bottom in
6" of water. They just backfilled around them a little and pumped in
the concrete.
So what if the bottom blows out a little, It just gives you a bigger
foot on the bottom.
A tube jetted down 6 feet in the sand is not going anywhere. As you
already said, the sides are sealed.
When you jet a pipe or tube, you are only pumping down the center
anyway. Don't pump the outside at all.
Then you end up with a hollow tube with nothing but dirty water in it.
Pump that water out and you have an empty tube.
Any time you are jetting any kind of piling, it is best to let them
stabilize for 6 months or more before you build on them.
That is why a commercial guy won't be doing that very often.
In the Florida sand, I never had a problem with them moving one little
bit after they were in place.
g***@aol.com
2013-09-11 19:19:48 UTC
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Post by iBoaterer
Post by g***@aol.com
Post by iBoaterer
You can't jet in a piece of sonotube.
Why not?
It won't stand being we that long. Inside and outside are coated, ends
are not.
How long are you planning on leaving them there before you place the
concrete? The bottom will be in the sand and the top in the air, the
sides are all that is exposed anyway.
Sorry, no. Been there done that. It will fold at the bottom every time.
I have seen sonotubes sitting in a puddle for several days with no
problems (column forms sitting in a hole around a foundation pads)
Even if the bottom end went bad, it is inside the hole you jetted it
down in.
If you shoot one down and put the concrete in that day, nothing will
happen at all.
http://tinyurl.com/nh3w5au
If you are that worried about it, seal the ends with polyurethane
spray.
I just know I have seen them in a foundation hole with the bottom in
6" of water. They just backfilled around them a little and pumped in
the concrete.
So what if the bottom blows out a little, It just gives you a bigger
foot on the bottom.
A tube jetted down 6 feet in the sand is not going anywhere. As you
already said, the sides are sealed.
When you jet a pipe or tube, you are only pumping down the center
anyway. Don't pump the outside at all.
Then you end up with a hollow tube with nothing but dirty water in it.
Pump that water out and you have an empty tube.
Any time you are jetting any kind of piling, it is best to let them
stabilize for 6 months or more before you build on them.
That is why a commercial guy won't be doing that very often.
In the Florida sand, I never had a problem with them moving one little
bit after they were in place.
You never actually tried to move one then.
A jetted piling will be pretty wobbly for several tide changes and you
can still bump one up straight a couple days later if you have to.

We build a lot of docks here.
iBoaterer
2013-09-11 20:10:11 UTC
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Post by iBoaterer
Post by g***@aol.com
Post by iBoaterer
You can't jet in a piece of sonotube.
Why not?
It won't stand being we that long. Inside and outside are coated, ends
are not.
How long are you planning on leaving them there before you place the
concrete? The bottom will be in the sand and the top in the air, the
sides are all that is exposed anyway.
Sorry, no. Been there done that. It will fold at the bottom every time.
I have seen sonotubes sitting in a puddle for several days with no
problems (column forms sitting in a hole around a foundation pads)
Even if the bottom end went bad, it is inside the hole you jetted it
down in.
If you shoot one down and put the concrete in that day, nothing will
happen at all.
http://tinyurl.com/nh3w5au
If you are that worried about it, seal the ends with polyurethane
spray.
I just know I have seen them in a foundation hole with the bottom in
6" of water. They just backfilled around them a little and pumped in
the concrete.
So what if the bottom blows out a little, It just gives you a bigger
foot on the bottom.
A tube jetted down 6 feet in the sand is not going anywhere. As you
already said, the sides are sealed.
When you jet a pipe or tube, you are only pumping down the center
anyway. Don't pump the outside at all.
Then you end up with a hollow tube with nothing but dirty water in it.
Pump that water out and you have an empty tube.
Any time you are jetting any kind of piling, it is best to let them
stabilize for 6 months or more before you build on them.
That is why a commercial guy won't be doing that very often.
In the Florida sand, I never had a problem with them moving one little
bit after they were in place.
You never actually tried to move one then.
I sure have! A friend jetting a 1" PVC water pipe for a well to pump
water to his garden and chicken house. After he got in in ten feet, he
decided that it was going crooked. Now, he's so cheap he didn't want to
just abandon it, so he tried everything he could, and ended up with a
chain-fall and pulled the PVC apart. This was the same day he jetted it.
Post by g***@aol.com
A jetted piling will be pretty wobbly for several tide changes and you
can still bump one up straight a couple days later if you have to.
We build a lot of docks here.
A dock is no different than jetting into any other part of Florida sand.
g***@aol.com
2013-09-08 17:33:18 UTC
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Post by iBoaterer
Post by g***@aol.com
We always hear about how expensive boat docks and lifts are but these
old rednecks up the river show you don't need all of that complexity.
These are at least 20 years old
Why not PVC pilings? (full of concrete)
http://gfretwell.com/ftp/Minimalist%20dock.jpg
Simple lifts, Single lift plate, 4 posts and some pulleys.
http://gfretwell.com/ftp/Minimalist%20cradle%20lift.jpg
Got lift rings on your boat? It gets simpler
http://gfretwell.com/ftp/Minimalist%20ring%20lift.jpg
Note the home made weights (RoHS compliant)
PVC pilings work fine in Florida, friend did one. The great thing is
that you can just "jet" them in with a water hose connected to a 1" PVC
pipe!
I jetted in my wood pilings, you just need a big pump.
Post by iBoaterer
And you get jet horizontally, too, for electrical lines, etc.
I shot a 2" PVC 22 feet under my garage and hit a 1' wide hole in the
concrete floor so my spa could swap water with the pool.
iBoaterer
2013-09-08 17:51:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by g***@aol.com
Post by iBoaterer
Post by g***@aol.com
We always hear about how expensive boat docks and lifts are but these
old rednecks up the river show you don't need all of that complexity.
These are at least 20 years old
Why not PVC pilings? (full of concrete)
http://gfretwell.com/ftp/Minimalist%20dock.jpg
Simple lifts, Single lift plate, 4 posts and some pulleys.
http://gfretwell.com/ftp/Minimalist%20cradle%20lift.jpg
Got lift rings on your boat? It gets simpler
http://gfretwell.com/ftp/Minimalist%20ring%20lift.jpg
Note the home made weights (RoHS compliant)
PVC pilings work fine in Florida, friend did one. The great thing is
that you can just "jet" them in with a water hose connected to a 1" PVC
pipe!
I jetted in my wood pilings, you just need a big pump.
Post by iBoaterer
And you get jet horizontally, too, for electrical lines, etc.
I shot a 2" PVC 22 feet under my garage and hit a 1' wide hole in the
concrete floor so my spa could swap water with the pool.
Yup.
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