Rinker or Sea Ray

[o***@cox.net]

We have decided that our small bowrider does not suit us well on Grand
Lake in Oklahoma, so we have decided that a 26-28' cruiser will work
fien for our lifestyle. I have narrowed it down to used units from
either Sea Ray or Rinker both boats we are looking at have the 7.4 w/
B3-the Sea Ray is a 1998 with 800 + hours and the Rinker is a 1999
with about 400 hours. Now I realize that care and maintenance are a
very big factor on top of the hours, so what I am looking for is some
thoughts on these 2 vessels and any experiences you may have had-good
or bad.

Thanks,

Dennis

[o***@comcast.net]

Post by o***@cox.net
We have decided that our small bowrider does not suit us well on Grand
Lake in Oklahoma, so we have decided that a 26-28' cruiser will work
fien for our lifestyle. I have narrowed it down to used units from
either Sea Ray or Rinker both boats we are looking at have the 7.4 w/
B3-the Sea Ray is a 1998 with 800 + hours and the Rinker is a 1999
with about 400 hours. Now I realize that care and maintenance are a
very big factor on top of the hours, so what I am looking for is some
thoughts on these 2 vessels and any experiences you may have had-good
or bad.
Thanks,
Dennis

Assuming both boats cost the same, some things to consider:

The Rinker is 1 year younger with 400 less hours on the engine. The
Sea Ray is 400 hours closer to a rebuilt.....ka-ching!

Make sure the owner has maintenance receipts (and perhaps a
maintenance and repair log) that confirms the hour meter reading.
If not I might tend to dismiss the hour meter reading...........it too
easy to disconnect it.

Sea Ray has better name recognition than Rinker thanks mainly to great
marketing. On the other hand the Rinker may actually have higher
quality hardware and workmanship. Compare the quality of things like
deck rails (welded or t-fittings, diameter) and cabin cabinetry and
hardware.

Do both boats offer similar helm electronics? How old is the
canvas?

Make an offer contingent on a structural and mechanical (including
engine compression) survey.

[Chuck Gould]

Post by o***@comcast.net
Sea Ray has better name recognition than Rinker thanks mainly to great
marketing. �On the other hand the Rinker may actually have higher
quality hardware and workmanship. �Compare the quality of things like
deck rails (welded or t-fittings, diameter) and cabin cabinetry and
hardware.

Do you have some basis for that statement, (opinion) or is it purely
rhetorical?

If I dig out the Powerboat Guide from 1998, (back when the Rinker was
new) the corporate "puff statement" (normally supplied by or
influenced and approved by the builder) empasizes that the company
"builds a series of affordably priced models".

The lead sentence on the 260/265 Fiesta Vee reads, "The Rinker 260/265
Fiesta Vee is an economy-priced mid-cabin family cruiser with an
attractive profile to go with her relatively narrow 8-foot, 6-inch
beam." The fact that economy pricing is used as a preface for the rest
of the description is seldom a good sign.

The third sentence on the 266 Fiesta Vee reads "Like all Rinker
models, the 266 is a fairly straightforward boat, affordaby priced and
conservatively built on a solid fiberglass deep-V hull"

The lead sentence on the 280 Fiesta Vee reads, "Like all Rinker
models, the 280 Fiesta Vee is a budget-priced, no-glitz package."

The lead sentence for the Rinker 300 Fiesta Vee reads, "The Rinker 300
Fiesta Vee is a sporty and affordably priced express cruiser......"

etc, etc etc,

That wouldn't give a lot of folks much reason to expect better harware
and workmanship than found on a Sea Ray.

The only other boat brand that comes to mind that makes such a point
of crowing about affordable pricing starts with a letter very near the
beginning of the alphabet.

It may well be that Rinker boats are different now than they were in
1998 and that the company is trying to market from a quality, rather
than a price standpoint. However, as the original poster is looking at
a 1998 model it's more useful to see how the company viewed its place
in the market back then, as opposed to what they may be trying to do
in 2007. "We build cheaper boats" isn't the world's most encouraging
mission statement.

Not to say that an individual, nine year old 1998 Rinker couldn't be a
better boat than an individual, nine year old 1998 Sea Ray, of
course... but I'd be surprised to learn that they were generally
better boats when new.

[JimH]

Post by o***@comcast.net
Sea Ray has better name recognition than Rinker thanks mainly to great
marketing. On the other hand the Rinker *may* actually have higher
quality hardware and workmanship. Compare the quality of things like
deck rails (welded or t-fittings, diameter) and cabin cabinetry and
hardware.

Do you have some basis for that statement, (opinion) or is it purely
rhetorical?


====================

Note the key word *may* Chuck. I am also asking him to *compare* the
quality.

IMO Sea Ray is overpriced and it's reputation as being a 1st class boat is
overstated.

Got it now? Good. ;-)

[Chuck Gould]

Post by Chuck Gould

Post by o***@comcast.net
Sea Ray has better name recognition than Rinker thanks mainly to great
marketing. On the other hand the Rinker *may* actually have higher
quality hardware and workmanship. Compare the quality of things like
deck rails (welded or t-fittings, diameter) and cabin cabinetry and
hardware.

Do you have some basis for that statement, (opinion) or is it purely
rhetorical?
====================
Note the key word *may* Chuck. �I am also asking him to *compare* the
quality.
IMO Sea Ray is overpriced and it's reputation as being a 1st class boat is
overstated.
Got it now? �Good. �;-)

Of course.

One should *compare* KIA and Mercedes Benz. Who knows? The KIA *may*
be a better car. :-)

[JimH]

Post by Chuck Gould

Post by o***@comcast.net
Sea Ray has better name recognition than Rinker thanks mainly to great
marketing. On the other hand the Rinker *may* actually have higher
quality hardware and workmanship. Compare the quality of things like
deck rails (welded or t-fittings, diameter) and cabin cabinetry and
hardware.

Do you have some basis for that statement, (opinion) or is it purely
rhetorical?
====================
Note the key word *may* Chuck. I am also asking him to *compare* the
quality.
IMO Sea Ray is overpriced and it's reputation as being a 1st class boat is
overstated.
Got it now? Good. ;-)

Of course.

One should *compare* KIA and Mercedes Benz. Who knows? The KIA *may*
be a better car. :-)

=================

Having another bad day Chuck?

[Chuck Gould]

Post by Chuck Gould

Post by Chuck Gould

Post by o***@comcast.net
Sea Ray has better name recognition than Rinker thanks mainly to great
marketing. On the other hand the Rinker *may* actually have higher
quality hardware and workmanship. Compare the quality of things like
deck rails (welded or t-fittings, diameter) and cabin cabinetry and
hardware.

Do you have some basis for that statement, (opinion) or is it purely
rhetorical?
====================
Note the key word *may* Chuck. I am also asking him to *compare* the
quality.
IMO Sea Ray is overpriced and it's reputation as being a 1st class boat is
overstated.
Got it now? Good. ;-)

Of course.
One should *compare* KIA and Mercedes Benz. Who knows? The KIA *may*
be a better car. �:-)
=================
Having another bad day Chuck?- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

Not at all.

You always read a lot of angst into things where it doesn't exist. Not
everybody is in an emotional knot all the time. (And here's the
secret, stop giving a darn about what people you don't know and will
never meet think about you- or whether they think about you at all).

My original question was: "Do you have some basis for that statement,
(opinion) or is it purely rhetorical?"

Your repsonse was a non-answer- you chose to challenge my reading
perception. However, based on the nature of your response its easy to
conclude that there was no basis of either information or experience
for your statement and it was indeed purely rhetorical.

As I then pointed out, one could always advise anybody to compare any
two products, no matter how dissimilar, because there's a chance that
the product normally considered to be of lesser quality might have
better components than the product typically considered superior.

[JimH]

Post by Chuck Gould

Post by Chuck Gould

Post by o***@comcast.net
Sea Ray has better name recognition than Rinker thanks mainly to great
marketing. On the other hand the Rinker *may* actually have higher
quality hardware and workmanship. Compare the quality of things like
deck rails (welded or t-fittings, diameter) and cabin cabinetry and
hardware.

Do you have some basis for that statement, (opinion) or is it purely
rhetorical?
====================
Note the key word *may* Chuck. I am also asking him to *compare* the
quality.
IMO Sea Ray is overpriced and it's reputation as being a 1st class boat is
overstated.
Got it now? Good. ;-)

Of course.
One should *compare* KIA and Mercedes Benz. Who knows? The KIA *may*
be a better car. :-)
=================
Having another bad day Chuck?- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

Not at all.

=====================

I am not familiar with the quality of Rinker boats. That is why I asked him
to compare hardware and fittings to see how it compares to the Sea Ray. For
all I know it *may* meet or exceed Sea Ray's "quality".........with BTW
became an urban legend shortly after Brunswick purchased them.

[Chuck Gould]

I am not familiar with the quality of Rinker boats. �That is why I asked him
to compare hardware and fittings to see how it compares to the Sea Ray. �For
all I know it *may* meet or exceed Sea Ray's "quality".........with BTW
became an urban legend shortly after Brunswick purchased them.- Hide quoted text -

(Brunswick bought Sea Ray in 1986).

[JimH]

"Chuck Gould" <***@gmail.com> wrote in message news:***@64g2000cwx.googlegroups.com...
On Mar 12, 1:00?pm, "JimH" <***@noone.com> wrote:



(Brunswick bought Sea Ray in 1986).


Yep, and they did not influence designs until 1989 or 1990 if I recall. The
quality also went into the dumper at that same time.

[RJSmithers]

Post by Chuck Gould
(Brunswick bought Sea Ray in 1986).
Yep, and they did not influence designs until 1989 or 1990 if I recall. The
quality also went into the dumper at that same time.

I had never heard that SeaRay's quality went into the dumper. I had
always thought of SeaRay as a mid range boat and had never heard the
"Bayliner" horror stores. I mean it would be funny if someone said "OK,
this blond pulled up in a SeaRay and said she could not get the boat on
plane..... " It is funny that SeaRay's quality went into the dumper
just about the same time Bayliner's quality want from being in the
dumper to them making a decent entry level boat. I guess Brunswick
couldn't afford to make two good boats so they decided to put a major
effort to rebuild the Bayliner brand by destroying the SeaRay brand. ;)

Yeah, that's the ticket. ;)

[JimH]

Post by Chuck Gould
(Brunswick bought Sea Ray in 1986).
Yep, and they did not influence designs until 1989 or 1990 if I recall.
The quality also went into the dumper at that same time.

BTW: David Pascoe seems to agree. A local surveyor with a great reputation
(he surveyed 3 of my boats and is a buyers surveyor) also agrees that they
are over rated and over priced..

Some food for thought:

http://www.docksidereports.com/boatreviews/searay_250_sundancer.htm

http://www.yachtsurvey.com/boatreviews/sundancer_290.htm

While Pascoe is not God, he does show some serious production flaws in
fairly high priced boats. But I guess the gold chain wearing crowd with
small private parts think they are being admired when they cruise the water
in their Sea Ray as image is everything to some. ;-)

[RJSmithers]

Post by JimH

Post by Chuck Gould
(Brunswick bought Sea Ray in 1986).
Yep, and they did not influence designs until 1989 or 1990 if I recall.
The quality also went into the dumper at that same time.

BTW: David Pascoe seems to agree. A local surveyor with a great reputation
(he surveyed 3 of my boats and is a buyers surveyor) also agrees that they
are over rated and over priced..
http://www.docksidereports.com/boatreviews/searay_250_sundancer.htm
http://www.yachtsurvey.com/boatreviews/sundancer_290.htm
While Pascoe is not God, he does show some serious production flaws in
fairly high priced boats. But I guess the gold chain wearing crowd with
small private parts think they are being admired when they cruise the water
in their Sea Ray as image is everything to some. ;-)

Did you read the article?

Summing up: On the outside, the overall quality is pretty good. Not much
chintzy hardware, and the basic structures are holding up well. With
care, it still looks good. The rub rails aren't all loose, dented and
falling off, and stress cracking is minimal. As a used boat, it offers
excellent value. As a new boat, they're still hard to beat quality wise,
but the quality margin over the competition can be a pretty thin line at
times.

[Harry Krause]

Post by JimH

Post by Chuck Gould
(Brunswick bought Sea Ray in 1986).
Yep, and they did not influence designs until 1989 or 1990 if I recall.
The quality also went into the dumper at that same time.

BTW: David Pascoe seems to agree. A local surveyor with a great reputation
(he surveyed 3 of my boats and is a buyers surveyor) also agrees that they
are over rated and over priced..
http://www.docksidereports.com/boatreviews/searay_250_sundancer.htm
http://www.yachtsurvey.com/boatreviews/sundancer_290.htm
While Pascoe is not God, he does show some serious production flaws in
fairly high priced boats. But I guess the gold chain wearing crowd with
small private parts think they are being admired when they cruise the water
in their Sea Ray as image is everything to some. ;-)

Most of the big Sea Rays I see are dock queens.

[JimH]

Post by Harry Krause

Post by JimH

Post by Chuck Gould
(Brunswick bought Sea Ray in 1986).
Yep, and they did not influence designs until 1989 or 1990 if I recall.
The quality also went into the dumper at that same time.

BTW: David Pascoe seems to agree. A local surveyor with a great
reputation (he surveyed 3 of my boats and is a buyers surveyor) also
agrees that they are over rated and over priced..
http://www.docksidereports.com/boatreviews/searay_250_sundancer.htm
http://www.yachtsurvey.com/boatreviews/sundancer_290.htm
While Pascoe is not God, he does show some serious production flaws in
fairly high priced boats. But I guess the gold chain wearing crowd with
small private parts think they are being admired when they cruise the
water in their Sea Ray as image is everything to some. ;-)

Most of the big Sea Rays I see are dock queens.

Regardless of size, Sea Ray boats are not at the Mercedes Benz class
standards as Chuck was previously referring to.

Anyone thinking that SR quality did not take a nose dive shortly after
Brunswick purchased them knows nothing about boats.

[RJSmithers]

Post by JimH

Post by Harry Krause

Post by JimH

Post by Chuck Gould
(Brunswick bought Sea Ray in 1986).
Yep, and they did not influence designs until 1989 or 1990 if I recall.
The quality also went into the dumper at that same time.

BTW: David Pascoe seems to agree. A local surveyor with a great
reputation (he surveyed 3 of my boats and is a buyers surveyor) also
agrees that they are over rated and over priced..
http://www.docksidereports.com/boatreviews/searay_250_sundancer.htm
http://www.yachtsurvey.com/boatreviews/sundancer_290.htm
While Pascoe is not God, he does show some serious production flaws in
fairly high priced boats. But I guess the gold chain wearing crowd with
small private parts think they are being admired when they cruise the
water in their Sea Ray as image is everything to some. ;-)

Most of the big Sea Rays I see are dock queens.

Regardless of size, Sea Ray boats are not at the Mercedes Benz class
standards as Chuck was previously referring to.
Anyone thinking that SR quality did not take a nose dive shortly after
Brunswick purchased them knows nothing about boats.

JimH,

You need to talk to your surveyor, David Pascoe, he seems to disagree
with your appraisal of SeaRay going down the crapper.

His comments concerning a 1995 SeaRay include: Many of our readers
think that we knock Sea Ray too hard. Some ask questions like, "You
don't like Sea Rays very much, do you?" Actually, compared to the
competition, we like them just fine, albeit with some serious nitpicking.

However, being the largest selling boat builder in the world, and
although their boats have a reasonably well-deserved reputation for
quality we've long felt that, for the price, there was plenty of room
for improvement

[Chuck Gould]

Post by JimH

Post by Harry Krause

Post by Chuck Gould
(Brunswick bought Sea Ray in 1986).
Yep, and they did not influence designs until 1989 or 1990 if I recall.
The quality also went into the dumper at that same time.

BTW: �David Pascoe seems to agree. �A local surveyor with a great
reputation (he surveyed 3 of my boats and is a buyers surveyor) also
agrees that they are over rated and over priced..
http://www.docksidereports.com/boatreviews/searay_250_sundancer.htm
http://www.yachtsurvey.com/boatreviews/sundancer_290.htm
While Pascoe is not God, he does show some serious production flaws in
fairly high priced boats. �But I guess the gold chain wearing crowd with
small private parts think they are being admired when they cruise the
water in their Sea Ray as image is everything to some. � ;-)

Most of the big Sea Rays I see are dock queens.

Regardless of size, Sea Ray boats are not at the Mercedes Benz class
standards as Chuck was previously referring to.

I think you overrate Mercedes.

Post by JimH
Anyone thinking that SR quality did not take a nose dive shortly after
Brunswick purchased them knows nothing about boats.- Hide quoted text -

Among mass-pro boats turned out in high numbers for a broad market,
Sea Ray is a top tier product. There are some boats that compete, but
among mass-pro boats turned out in high numbers for a broad market
there are none that are clearly better over such a wide spectrum; from
runabouts to 60-footers. There are better "niche" boats in some
categories, yes. There are also some mass-pro boats that compete
pretty well in the general quality category that people will choose
for subjective reasons.

About half the "Sea Ray has gone to hell" stuff that circulated for a
while was spawned by the competition. Joe Boater drops by the BRAND X
dealership, says he's looking for a boat, and that he has just come
from the Sea Ray store. A poor salesperson (the norm, unfotunately)
might respond with "Oh, you mean you've been looking at an overpriced
Bayliner! See this magazine article? Sea Ray doesn't even exist
anymore, they were bought out by Bayliner last year! Everybody knows
that Bayliner is going to ruin the product and that they just bought
the company for the name. Bayliner is getting such a bad reputation
that pretty soon nobody will buy a Bayliner either new or used, so the
plan is to turn out Bayliner boats with the Sea Ray name on them and
see how many people can be fooled into buying one."

There's little doubt that Brunswick changed a few things about Sea
Ray, but only because Brunswick is the parent company of more
competitively priced Bayliner did so many people just assume that all
the changes were bad. If Connie Ray hadn't sold out to Brunswick, the
entire brand would have disappeared. "Extinct" is not a better
boat. :-)

Heck, even our own Harry Krause, not the world's biggest fan of
Bayliner, has owned a Brunswick product, (he once had a Sea Pro).
Owners of Boston Whaler, Hatteras, and other premium Brunswick
trademarks probably don't feel like they have a POS vessel simply
because Brunswick also builds some boats designed to sell for less.

When David Pascoe takes some of the known baloney off his site,
(backyard bondo repairs represented as OEM layup, total misinformation
about diesel theory, etc), he will be taken more seriously by the
boating community at large.

[Tim]

Post by JimH
Got it now? Good. ;-)

Awww, Jim.

That type of response reminds me of something the king of the dojo
would say.

?; * )

[Wayne.B]

On 11 Mar 2007 23:45:51 -0700, "Chuck Gould"

Post by Chuck Gould
Not to say that an individual, nine year old 1998 Rinker couldn't be a
better boat than an individual, nine year old 1998 Sea Ray, of
course... but I'd be surprised to learn that they were generally
better boats when new.

I have two neighbors with late model Rinker 34 express cruisers, one
bough used, one bought new. They are both happy with the boats and
they seem to be decent quality. However the neighbor with the new
boat has had a lot of dealer service issues which might be a local
problem.

My perception is that they do not ride as well in a chop as a
comparable Searay, probably because of less deadrise in the hull but I
don't know the exact numbers.

[Tim]

Dennis, you might be able to find some type of infoto compare the two,
here:

http://www.boattest.com/index.aspx

Post by o***@cox.net
We have decided that our small bowrider does not suit us well on Grand
Lake in Oklahoma, so we have decided that a 26-28' cruiser will work
fien for our lifestyle. I have narrowed it down to used units from
either Sea Ray or Rinker both boats we are looking at have the 7.4 w/
B3-the Sea Ray is a 1998 with 800 + hours and the Rinker is a 1999
with about 400 hours. Now I realize that care and maintenance are a
very big factor on top of the hours, so what I am looking for is some
thoughts on these 2 vessels and any experiences you may have had-good
or bad.
Thanks,
Dennis